Patrick (He/They pronouns) is an aspiring educator and taiko musician studying Physics and Philosophy at Oberlin College.
What does masculinity mean to you?
I think that masculinity to me is how one expresses themselves if they choose to align to this concept that your gender is male, whether by choice or by identity. Like for someone to be masculine is only to say, this is the way that I choose to express myself and identify as a male.
What do you think those traits are? Like, what do you think makes someone masculine.
Honestly, I don’t think you can put a label on it at all per se. I think that putting a label on specific gender expressions that would make you masculine is to say that like, people that are masculine need to express themselves in like X, Y, or Z in order to show masculinity.
Yeah, so as you said, if you’re not showing these overt themes of masculinity, what makes someone masculine then? What do you think makes you fall into “a man?”
I think the ways that people originally think of themselves as masculine has historically been defined by body image and body identity. Like, the reason that I would say, I’ve initially found myself to be masculine is that for the first 19 years of my life, I always had this concrete idea that I was a guy, but since I’ve turned 20 and 21, I’ve been thinking a lot more about what it means to be comfortable in one’s own masculinity. And, thinking about nontraditional ways of expressing masculinity. In the past year, I’ve been thinking about nontraditional ways of masculine expression. I’ve been experimenting with things like, wearing skirts, wearing feminine based clothing and doing things that we traditionally describe as femininity. Even wearing eyeliner and painting nails. But I don’t think that just because I choose to wear feminine assigned clothes or do feminine things like paint nails do eyeliner, that doesn’t make me any less of a man if that makes any sense.
Right. So then in those moments like so then what do you think makes you a man then?
I think going back to all of it, it feels to me like it comes down to self-identity and like self-image. When I look at myself, I think about myself as male. I think that it’s just a little weird to just come up with the concept of male without any specific traits that would lead you to think male. But it is kind of just like thinking about your body identity, being and choosing, Perhaps not choosing, but knowing who you are.
What has allowed you to filter into this group of being male and masculinity? What has filtered you from being a person into someone male and masculine?
Honestly, I can’t tack it to one thing, but I definitely think it has to come from probably the way that environments are shaped based on gender. The concept of being assigned male at birth. The way that assignment affects how I’m raised is profound in many different ways, like the clothes that my parents gave me, the toys that I was given to play with. And I think that by that nurture and my inclination to follow said nurture, then that funneled me down to this idea of masculinity.
So when you started, you know, experimenting with, I guess, like, what would be more feminine traits, you know? Now that you were kind of filtered into this group, how did other people react when you’re kind of doing what was against the norm?
My current college environment is significantly different from the greater outside environment. I’ve really only received mostly positive things and I’ve been encouraged to try. Now, if we look outside of the scope of college into the greater world, I’ve received some support. Friends send me in like private messages and they’ll say it’s great, but it’s not like a proactive support. I think this is because there’s still a little bit of a bias when it comes to like, telling people, “Hey, I think skirts are sick and I’ve worn some skirts. I think I’ve had some really good outfits with them.” I think that while people will say this, I feel like in the current day and age people might look at you a little differently. They might look at you and perceive you a little bit differently in a way that might not be positive.
If not for this stigma, I feel like I would have been a lot more encouraged to go beyond what traditional binary dictates a man does. And, in terms of an emotional state, I would have been a little better for it.
One thing I’ve also been pondering in terms of my confidence with my gender is that I’ve been weighing the idea of like, non-binary-ness and thinking about using they/them pronouns. But I also don’t know if I am in a position to use them and I questioned that. I was like, why am I questioning whether I’m justified in using “them” as a pronoun? Does that mean that I’m like self-refuting in that respect? So that’s like my internal discussion on like, if my nurture was changed.
Why were you kind of thinking about it? And then why also did you feel like you couldn’t use it?
Well, I was first thinking about they/them/theirs because I was thinking about my expression of masculinity and whether I was aligned with traditional styles of masculinity.
I come from the tri state area and a binary environment in terms of gender. In my first year class in college we talked about social constructs and I had started to slowly unpack the ways that gender is a lot more fluid than just binary. My initial thoughts on using they/them/theirs and me not like being allowed to use it is that I don’t know whether it’s a part of me like he/him/his is. I’m not 100% sure about the scope in which I feel non binary is
When I saw the term gender questioning, I thought it could be a way to think about my state. But I’ve been really comfortable with my masculinity and my identity. Therefore, my expression of masculinity can be whatever I want. If I choose to sometimes express myself in like a feminine way, that doesn’t change who I am. Deep down I consider myself still masculine.
So what’s your expression of masculinity?
Skirts, nail polish. I look at a lot of like, non-binary and femme outfits, and I’m like, that looks amazing. I want to, if I can, to try to be in those outfits and have that kind of image and be 100% comfortable being in a skirt without having to think about any implicit biases that come with wearing a skirt as someone that uses him/he/his.
It seems that kind of physical expression, wearing femme clothes, is very contrary to masculinity, you know? Why do you think that makes you masculine?
Possibly the way that I was nurtured… There just seems to be a thought in my mind that just keeps going back to like he,him,his. I don’t know whether that’s something I’ll change or explore. But at the moment, in terms of how that defines me as masculine, I’m very unsure specifically how to articulate that I’m masculine other than that it is my choice and my identity.
Sure, so if I could reiterate, you feel like even though your physical expression might be more traditional feminine clothes, inside you still feel like whatever these inherent traits (you can’t really explain) are what make you masculine.
Yeah, something like that. And I think that in terms of me wanting to wear more feminine aligned things and do feminine aligned things, that doesn’t mean I hate pants or anything. Like I still wear those outfits. But in terms of wanting the liberty to express who I am and choose what outfits I wear, I’d like to have more freedom.
How do you feel like culture has influenced you in your views of masculinity?
I think culture either reinforces or makes me reassess my views on masculinity. Kind of like in the vein of the nurture. My hometown instilled this idea of masculinity that I had. And then at college, it kind of just threw the kitchen sink at me and now here I am. I’ve thought of it vaguely in terms of styles of masculinity. But before coming to college, I was a Frank Sinatra, Jersey boy. I was like this smooth singing (debatable) guy.
Well, I think it’s also interesting that everyone has an image of what Frank Sinatra is. And it seems like it’s the pinnacle that a lot of men are trying to reach. The image that a lot of men are trying to pursue. Personally, I think it’s outdated, but at the same time it’s outdated, but a lot of people are still working towards it.
It almost feels like everything is trying to bring us back to the 1950s epitome of man. When I was that Frank Sinatra kind of guy, it almost felt like people were calling me an old soul, but I’m not old. Like the only reason I really took on that idea is because I listen to Fly Me to the Moon, I can sing it and then style off of that. But to look at the Frank Sinatra ideal as idyllic is just no, that ain’t it. Like you’ve sold yourself short on so many things that you’re missing out on.
How has your like family influenced you in any way?
Okay. Yeah, my dad. I think it was born in Macau. But then his family was able to move from his old village to public housing in Hong Kong. And then just really had to work as the eldest of three along with his dad to try to pay for his two younger siblings. And then was a nurse. Did a lot of stuff, went to nursing school and that was in the US. And then my mom actually came over for college. So very two different paths. They actually both met at a church in Chinatown. So that’s how the whole thing comes together. And I think that in terms of immigrant families and being in Chinatown, a lot of not only American culture, but also Chinese culture has very specific ideas of masculinity. And so you have a double dose of this 1950s Frank Sinatra esque idea, especially with my parents coming from Hong Kong.
Which Chinatown?
New York Chinatown. In the Mott street area.
Right. Is that where you were raised?
So my parents moved out of New York and settled in Central Jersey. But essentially I was raised there because like, every Sunday, we would come out, go to church, because that’s really where my family support. Like my parents’ like support system was in terms of like, the immigrant friends that they made here, like the people that had went to colleges, international students and stayed in the US here. Like that’s really where their friend base was. So every Sunday woke up at like, eight got to church by like 10 and then had like, it wasn’t like a second culture but it was like a very specific kind of culture. It’s like, I know for a lot of other Asian like friends of mine at home, sometimes they go to like Chinese school. Like, it’s like, Chinese school is like a very different culture from like, maybe home or like American school, but that’s kind of how it felt. Like you had American school and then you had like, Oh, I had Sunday school. And that was like, a lot different.
What was it like growing up in Central New Jersey? To now growing at college
I’ve grown so much in college. I talked to some of my high school friends and I feel like they haven’t grown in the way that I’ve grown at college. Especially, in terms of being conscious about race and gender. Central Jersey is, I would say, kind of a toxic place.
Do you want to add anything else?
Just a reinforcement of how college has been really good for me. In terms of thinking about my masculinity, the frisbee team was one of the first platforms I thought of those kinds of issues. I can tie it to one specific member. Shoutout: E.P is an outstanding human being.
